Let me explain where I am coming from. Like many others, I am sure throughout our country, I am still waiting for the opportunity to get into some sort of regular fly fishing mode with the 2014 season. I mean weather, well, has been really weather here on the Front Range of Colorado. If the wind is not blowing 30 - 40 MPH, then you have weekends like this one. Wet rain and snow! I hope the weather man is wrong, but, they had predicted 4 - 6 inches of snow in some areas. Can we just go fishing and get on with the season for crying out loud.
Anyway, while I wasn't fishing today, I did manage to hit my local fly tying supplier for a few things I needed to tie up some Bluegill nymphs and a few other things from my "Stuff" list. My wife just smiles and sends me on the way. She knows better than to debate me about "Stuff".
I better get to the point here that I am trying to make with this post. While looking through most all of the fly tying goodies, I over heard a conversation between Employee and Customer. It kind of went something like this:
Customer: I am looking for materials to tie up some various streamers for fishing Bass, mostly Largemouth, but, some Smallmouth, too?
Employee: Well, you don't have to be very selective when choosing what materials to use when tying Streamers for Bass! Heck, Bass will eat anything as long as you find them in a feeding mode. I would not bother with anything but a Wooly Bugger in different colors and a couple of different sizes.
Customer: Really, well that should be easy enough. I was also thinking about tying up some Marabou Muddlers or trying some of the Articulated Streamers I see in the magazines.
Employee: I would not even bother with all that extra work and time in tying. Bass are really stupid fish compared to Trout! With a Trout you have to be more cognizant of how you present the materials and what techniques to use. Trout are much more keen to what is going on around them than a Bass. Trout sometimes key on certain materials like the Enrico Puglesi fibers that you can combine certain colors to make more exact imitations than you would need for Bass fishing with Streamers. Here let me show you some of the material I am talking about and you will see what I mean when I say Trout are much more selective than a Bass.
To make a long story short, I blocked out the rest of the conversation as they moved to another isle in the fly tying materials section. I had heard enough reality or propaganda. Whichever, as I paid for my supplies, I just chuckled and shook my head. Left me wondering what all my BlogBuddies would think of this conversation and what they feel comparable intelligence levels are of a Bass or a Trout. Chime in if you feel the need too..............................................
Ah, I don't think either bass or trout are very intelligent. I would say it comes down to eyesight and aggressiveness. Trout have better eyes and are less aggressive due to their diet of tiny bugs. Bass eat bigger, faster prey. I guess you could look at growth rates as a way of explaining it, too. Bass in general probably grow faster than trout, and require more food. I'm not very picky when I'm hungry....
ReplyDeleteHello, Josh! Welcome back to my blog and I sure appreciate you taking the time to comment. To tell you the truth about this, I never really thought that much about it. As far as fishing with Streamers go, I know that Trout and Bass are opportunistic. Perhaps the Bass is more of a predator waiting to ambush a streamer than most trout. But, then I think of big Brown Trout and I see some of the same instincts in place. I agree that the Bass's metabolism may be more supercharged than a Trout, therefore, more actively feeding on bigger prey. Your last line in your comment is a very normal instinct even for us non-fish!
DeleteFrom what I have heard, bass are dumber than trout. They are supposed to bite at anything.. even cookies! Trout on the other hand.., can be picky little guys! (No choc. chips) Maybe it is time that I go find me a bass. = )
ReplyDeleteRD, your response gave me a good chuckle! Dang, you had to go and bring "Cookies" into the equation. You do just fine with your trout bite, but if you ever want to come and chase some dumb Bass with me make sure you bring the honorary "Cookies" and one of them t-shirts pictured in the post.
Deletei'd think trout are a bit more selective and wary, but smarter? Probably not. I find that in my home river, feeding chub are harder to trick than trout on dry flies, for what it's worth. :)
ReplyDelete-Oliver
Hi, Oliver. Happy to have you stop over and leave a comment here. If fishing required too much thinking about which fish is smarter on a given day or a given water, I probably would just stick to Bluegill period. Simple is fun in my book! I wonder what the dry fly fishing readers here will think of your observation that Chubs are more picky than Trout? Thanks for sharing.
DeleteI don't fish a whole lot for bass, but my experience is bass are generally more aggressive and therefore somewhat easier to catch. I rarely get skunked if I'm fishing warm water (except carp) while I often get skunked fishing for trout. I think presentation means more when it comes to trout than bass as well. Of course I could be wrong. One thing I for sure agree on is like Josh, I'm not too picky when I'm hungry.
ReplyDeleteYou need to spend more time fishing Bass, Howard. At our age it makes sense, if truly the odds are better at catching Bass than Trout. I would like to toss out the fact that Stream Trout require a lot of technique depending on your style of fishing. Whereas, Bass, await your cast ready to ambush your offering in water that is not generally moving. Oh, they can be very tough, too. Their aggressive nature makes them more vulnerable because food is not being brought to them by current. If something comes by that looks good to a Bass, lights out!
DeleteI've been thinking more and more about Bass since I ran across those big ones out in the Trout Pond. So I went out to the net to see if I could find out about Bass flies and guess what? Of the six that they say are the best, I have five in my fly boxes already. Does that mean one is smarter than the other? I've got no clue.
ReplyDeleteGood observation, Mark. I didn't find much difference in patterns either when I started fishing more warm water than cold water. Perhaps larger sizes come into play with Bass than Trout. One might need something extraordinary on some days to fool a bass, but, that is all the fun of the game. I just know they are fun to catch on a fly rod. As too which fish is smarter............................
DeleteI wouldn't let either do my taxes but I found "wild fish," meaning fish who were born in the body of water, have more tuned instincts and are more skittish. Clumps of Play-Doh with glitter catch plenty of trout every year. This is more of a case of instincts and not intelligence. Sharks have been shown to be fairly intelligent and will take about any bait that is in their face. Plenty of big ol bass without a hook mark in their lip out there.
ReplyDeleteDaniel, thanks for your feedback. I think there is probably something too a wild fish being more instinctive or skittish. I know that planted trout are often targets for fisherman because they are so easy to catch. Not much intelligence to speak of. Wish I knew where there were some big ol' Bass in superb condition around here. I don't mind Bass Wrestlin'.
DeleteMel
ReplyDeleteWell after years of fishing for bass I would say that bass will hit most anything thrown their way if they are in a feeding mode. I have landed bass back in the days when I tournament fished on pink pot o dot worms. Now tell me what prey that resembles? I wouldn’t say that the bass is dumb, but one can certainly cast some weird lures their way and they will hit it.
I would consider the trout in another league compared to a bass. Clear streams and clear tailraces make this fish extremely cautious and selective in their feeding habits. One doesn’t cast just anything at this fish and expect it hit. The fly to match a hatch, the material used on the fly, the presentation of the fly on the surface if it’s a dry and of course the correct mend and numerous other factors play into weather a fisherman has success or go home skunked when going after this fish. The trout is a worthy opponent.
Bill, excellent comment here! I don't know which fish is the smarter, however, I agree that fly fishing for wild trout in a stream is a whole different ball game than pounding the tree and lily pads for Bass. They are different fish species and come with totally different needs. Still big fish don't get big by being stupid. Big Brown Trout, for example, are a very serious challenge. However, a big Bass, is also. They both are worthy opponents I believe.
DeleteMel, I don't fish trout, only three times in my life but I agree with previous posters that it isn't a matter of intelligence as I don't think many fish or other wildlife are intelligent but rather instinctive. Anyway, most folks that say bass are agressive are basing that on the fish they catch, which is usually the result of a obvious surface strike or jolting line pull on a subsurface pattern. However, I have observed several occasions when a bass has charged up to a subsurface fly, stopped in its tracks and hovered over to the fly and just took in the tail of the fly and spit it out without me having ever seen the line move much less felt anything. Now, I don't know if that is selectiveness or just curiousity and not being in the mood to eat. Also, I have experienced fishing a particular topwater/diving hard body bug and had bass charge up to it and just follow, having nothing to lose, I changed colors and got commited strikes. It probably boils down more to the determination and experience of the angler than it does to the "intelligence" of the fish.
ReplyDeleteWelcome, Kirk, to my blog. It is a pleasure to have you stop by and leave a comment on this post. Really great to hear from your perspective, in that you haven't trout fished much, that Bass have behavior that makes one think twice about what the Bass's intentions are. Selectivity, curiousity, are often times labels used in trout fishing circles. I think your last sentence has considerable validity too it. Thanks, again.
DeleteLets see, on one hand you have a fish that has learned to live in almost any water type. A fish that has developed a physical body feature that allows it to eat basicly anything it wants. A body camo that lets hit hide in plain sight. And then you have trout. Enough said. I'll take a bass over trout any day of the week.
ReplyDeleteHi, John. Appreciate your input here. I am learning to love Bass more each day and especially since moving to Colorado a couple of years ago from Island Park, Idaho. Bass were non-existent in that part of the state. They both are great fish and both can be very challenging depending on their environment and your skills. Really looking forward to this season and fly fishing for Bass!
DeleteI love to catch both fish personally , I wouldn't give trout more credit than they deserve though. For all the technical tackle that abounds for trout fishing I could narrow the selection down to a couple of flies and feel as confident about catching fish as the guy with 10 boxes of intricate patterns (not that I fish with two flies , I've got 10 boxes just for backup!). Try fishing smallies on a gin clear stream when they are a little picky and you'll agree with me that they can be a quite challenging quarry.
ReplyDeleteWelcome, Jeff, to the discussion. Sure appreciate your insight. It would be really easy not to give either species to much recognition as far as "Who is the smartest?" I think we often really out think our adversary when we are out fishing. Like your view on the fact that we carry more boxes and flies than are necessary and somehow feel confident that we should have it covered. I would love an opportunity to fish a gin clear stream for Smallmouth. I would take that challenge in a minute. We have Smallmouth in Colorado, but, of the stillwater variety.
DeleteMel... I lived in Co for a little over 10 years...I considered myself lucky as I lived directly between aurora reservoir and cherry-creek res. When I wasn't working...(Framed houses for U.S. home builders) I was fishing one of the two places.. I caught my best rainbow out of cherry creek reservoir... 6 lb, 5 oz It was recorded with the game-warden office...I have no idea if it still holds a record or not...
ReplyDeletegreat blog....and i'll be visiting frequently....as I do alans....lol...
tight lines...
P.s.....Dave is my 1st name...
In regards to both bass and trout… I think we catch all the dumb ones and the smart ones never bite. They are somewhere at the bottom getting fat and laughing at our attempts to catch them!
ReplyDeleteJuan, I really appreciate the fact that you brought some humor into your feedback on this topic. Thank you, I needed that. Even though said in humor, you might just have a very valid point there, my friend.
DeleteNeither fish are particularly brilliant in the grand scheme of things: they rank far below "higher" species like Dogs, Crows, Cetaceans, and of course Primates. They are both fish. Both can be conditioned to eat certain things, and conditioned against certain patterns if caught enough and both are effected by temps, barometric pressure so forth. I have fished A LOT for both species and had days were I have slammed it and other days were I have been skunked by both, even on waters where "I have the pattern down". I have met some flat out dumb trout (that one that repeatedly hits your bright orange indicator--you all know that trout) in my day and been impressed by the stoicism of certain bass. I think it comes down to this, in my humble opinion, there is an certain amount of elitism within the fly fishing world regarding trout. They are the mother species of our sport if you will. Bass, well, theres a certain blue collar/nascar vibe to that. So people think Trout rank higher. Just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteWill a general wooly bugger catch a bass sure, but I have taken a multitude of trout on one as well. I also have seen plenty of both turn their noses up at one. There is no one magic pattern. Fish are fish. Learn the behavior, learn the food, study the environment. Fishing is a puzzle, its when we start stating absolutes that we get into ruts and well that just means less fish to hand. Sorry for the rant...
Beautifully stated, Bryan, I sure appreciate your input! It is my hope that all of the readers and those who commented of this post take the time to evaluate what each of us has had to say. These types of posts and responses are very thought provoking and I hope that everyone will take something from this post and think about it while they are devising their game plan for their next outing, I like to say that Fishing is a game between the Fisherman or gal, and, the Fish. Hard as we may think we have it figured out, the fact is more often than not the Fish win.
DeleteAs a very unaccomplished angler, I can attest that neither bass or trout are easy for me to catch. In my days on the water, I have hooked up with far more bass than trout. I do not know if selectivity is the reason, though. I have two reasons I credit bass with being "easier" to catch.
ReplyDelete1. Bass I catch have been in lakes; trout have been in rivers. I think fishing a lake is easier because there are fewer obstacles for me to hook. I lose less flies and spend less time retrieving flies and line from trees and brush on the shoreline of lakes. While river fishing, if there is a tree, I will tangle on it.
2. Trout (specifically brown trout) in my parts primarily feed in lower light periods. I never hit the water before 9am. Also, I am pretty much scared of the woods in the dark, so I'm off the water by 8pm when by myself. Therefore I am missing the best feeding windows of brown trout. Generally speaking, I have not found bass to be particular about light conditions. I have caught bass morning, afternoon, and evenings. If prey is easy to get, they will likely go for it. I think trout are a little more cautious of predators in their river environments.
That being said, last summer I fished a small lake in northern Michigan. I didn't know what species were present until I got there. The water was super clear, and relatively deep, too. It turns out there were both bass and rainbow trout in this lake. Both species were picky. I had a wide variety of tackle, bait, and flies with me. The bass (I saw them inspect the offerings) would not approach a fly. I threw various lures; nothing. I even tried worms on a hook. Nothing. I wound-up chumming some worms to see how the bass would react. The bass followed them down to the bottom, but still didn't take. Please explain that one to me!
Mel, I dont believe "smarts" has anything to do with it. I think the fish gods knew that the mystery of the hunt would keep us coming back regardless of the fish we were chasing or how we were chasing them. The memories that have been created and the experiences we have had remind us that both are pretty smart otherwise fishing would be "catching" and we would quickly grow tired of both. Yet on any given day we can spank them or they spank us! Tightlines my friend! Always a pleasure!
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